QueerClick

No you shouldn't respond - it is a pointless line of argument - it sounds to me that he takes Leviticus seriously and if so there is no argument. Man shall not lie with man - end of story. Wrong but you'll never argue round it. Get another masseur and move on and by the way if the new masseur does 'extras' give me his number!!

I am gay. I'm a Christian. All I have to say is: Good God, Mary. Let it go!

A short but blunt note should do the trick....
Dear Christian:
While I appreciate your alleged concern for my soul, I feel you should be more worried about your own.
Your actions are anything but Christ-like. While you may believe you have the authority to judge others, even your own scripture tells you not to do so.
Ours was a business relationship that you could have very easily severed for any number of reasons, but you chose to do it in a harsh and judgmental way. It was beyond unprofessional; it was offensive and insulting. I doubt Jesus would approve of your cruel behavior, if he could see it. (he can’t).
I’m Jewish and I’m gay. And no matter how hard you pray these facts won’t change. I never tried to convert you to my belief system, so I’m not sure why it was so important for you to try to convert me.
All I really wanted was a massage, not a sermon.
Sincerely,
Your ex-client

Just because he doesn't believe in gay marriage doesn't mean he is perpetuating hate, its what he believes and thats that, why dwell on it, if you go after him it will only make you feel better and could cause some real problems . Do you honestly want to spend the rest of your life trying to change people's minds?

there are a lot of good masseur out there especially those who are gay.

I'm a bit confused. At first the writer says: "I'm old enough to know that this conversation had a dead end to it, that there was no point in debating or arguing, and I thanked him for his honesty and wished him good luck. I was just going to let it go..." but then later he says: "I don't think I should let it go, I feel an obligation to respond to him..." I'm not sure why he changed his mind, but I think his initial reaction was the correct one.

Whatever one thinks about the merits of his views (and I doubt anyone around here is going to seriously argue in their favour) the simple fact, as I see it, is the masseur has a right to offer his services (or not) as he chooses and if he feels uncomfortable with the situation and wants to end it, then that's his right. Telling someone you think their views are 'flawed' or constitute 'hatred' is hardly likely to change their minds and, if anything, will only deepen his beliefs.

As far as I'm concerned, the masseur is already being 'punished' enough by the loss of income in question and the writer will be much better off paying a gay-friendly masseur (or masseuse?) instead.

had something similar happen - long story short - when they said 'they were praying for me' - i boiled for a moment and then someone deep inside me began to speak - and they said ...
"God hears your prayers for me - he wants me to be happy - what you don't understand is he doesn't hear the negative - what he hears is YOU are Praying for ME - and from what you have said - so are all your friends - but he comes to me and he says BJ i have all these people praying for you - my son, what is at your hearts desire - so i want you to know what you and all your friends are essentially praying for is that i get fucked tonight - oh, and world peace"...

the harshness of the ending could be rewritten to fit the severity of the anger .. condensed versions have been sufficient in warding off those who seek to pray for me in the name of God...

p.s. - if it suits you, you are welcome to it ...

I believe you should let it go as well. My psychoanalysis of the situation is he discovered something about himself within that year time frame that he didn't know how to handle.

A year later he wants to end it because you're gay and his Christian beliefs lead to this epiphany?

Like you said, it was a business deal; plain and simple. He should really get over himself and his "beliefs" to deal with what the real issue may or may not be.

As for you, I believe you were quite cavalier in your handling of the situation. Kudos to you, sir.

If it were me, I would respond. Not to argue with him or to be mean in any respect. I would tell him that you appreciate his opinion and wish he would've spoken up about it sooner. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinion. Would also restate that you are not christian like he is and that this is the United States of America and that we all have that right to worship how we wish to. As a religious person, you should be willing to offer insight to your religion to someone of a different or no faith, but in no way should force those beliefs onto another. Appreciate the fact he prays for you, it shows he isn't just "kill the fag, he doesn't deserve to live". That unfortunately is how a lot of christians are, when they know very well it's a crime against God and nature to kill unless it's to provide food.

As a Christian, he did something that is 'appropriate' for his religion? I hope that came across the way I wanted it to. He wasn't hateful, unless he was mean the way he said it. It's just weird it took so long to say something...Was it so he could get all that money first? That's greed. Isn't greed a sin? lol And incest..and since Adam and Eve were the 1st ppl, that would mean we're all related..but that's besides the point...

Again, I'd just tell him you appreciate the care, but you're happy in your life and you'll let God have the final Judgment because the God you believe in is much more merciful than the one that would condemn a man for loving another of God's children.

It could be that he's just using the "religious excuse" for other reasons not to continue, people are like that sometimes, say one thing but mean another.

Although I understand your anger I would let it go, there is no logical reasoning with a persons religious beliefs, thats their personal choice, it may have been appropriate to voice your opinions during the phone conversation but now thats done it woud be better to just move on with it.

An email to him would only service one purpose - allowing you to get it out and let it go. You are already doing that in a supportive environment on QC.

People enter and leave our lives all the time. Be grateful for the healthful benefits he provided while he was in your life, and remember the good that stemmed from it (less physical pain).

Stress and negative thinking often manifests itself as physical ailments and tension. By letting this eat at you mentally, you are probably undoing all the good that he did for you physically.

Continue to live a happy, healthy life and greet the next person who enters your life (friend, RMT, stranger) with open arms, and appreciate them until it is their turn to move on.

Let it go - why waste the energy?

Hey Tom

I agree with most of the comments posted so far. As much as you feel upset by what your masseur has said, there is no point in fighting fire with fire. Even if you wanted to sound as diplomatic as you possibly could, your response to him might still come across as being defensive or attacking. Should he reply to you it would then become an endless discussion that would leave both parties feeling unhappy.

I know how you're feeling and I think there are many people out there who have been on the receiving end of overtly evangelical Christians (though they aren't the only religious people to do this, but they are the most prominent) and are very hurt by how they phrase their words and prayers.

By leaving the matter be and finding peace within yourself, be it through talking it out with more friends, your mom or your husband, would be a better action to take because you wouldn't have to end up feeling more miserable than if you were to reply him.

Continue leading your life by example and I am sure people will later recognize the value in your 'lifestyle' which they might not agree with now.

OY! Forget about this goyishe kup gentile and don't get into a kerfuffle. Otherwise he'll just give you shpilkes. Find a reputable masseur ...

Myself, I would only respond if it was through a letter and let it be after that.

, but if he's going to not provide his services any longer for something that you can't change because it's just the person you are, then it's his lose and you're sorry.

I'd let him know that he was a great masseur and that his services were greatly appreciated and also let him know that you also have your faith (in Judaism) and that you're gay and that you wouldn't want to force someone to become a Jew or gay just like you don't want someone to try and make you become a Christian or straight. If he can't see past those things and recognize that you and your partner are great people that enjoy his services, then oh well.

I would move on since I would bother trying to change him, but I'd want him to at least know how I felt so he could learn from this. Feedback is a very important thing to get since we learn from it and hopefully he'll be more open to people of other faiths and sexual orientations in the future.

I agree that your handling of the situation was quite cavalier and suggest, like most of the respondents above, that you let the situation be and move on. You were the bigger person for responding the way you did, and I believe confronting him otherwise would detract from you being the "better" person in this situation. I also agree that unless what he said was meant to be overtly hurtful, hateful and caustic, in actuality it was his (unique Christian) way of disclosing his feelings as rationally as he could at the time. His epiphany was most likely sparked by something more underlying that made him uncomfortable (e.g., maybe he got aroused) and thought it best to separate himself from the situation. As a fallen Catholic myself, I can assure you that you will waste your time trying to confront him. Practitioners of Christianity of his caliber are blinded by a massive wall of ignorance and will never truly see or understand the rationale of others. Move on with your life and let him continue to blindly traverse a faulty interpretation of what was actually a once well-intentioned religion.

Let it go, let it go, let it go. Be the better, more gracious person.

I like what AlecB said, unless you are into drama then pretend that you are Joan Crawford AND Bette Davis and the do what you want in which case why did you write the fucking letter in the first place for? We all know there are homophobes out there who are most likely gay themselves!

I'd kindly ask him for all the money that you paid him back, because it's tainted and should be returned back to gay hands, so he doesn't catch it. =p

Anyone who would respond is simply itching for a pointless argument which will leave both sides unhappy. You have no reason to respond. You have no chance to change his mind. Nothing you say will make the slightest bit of difference, except maybe to make you feel like you got something off your chest. These religious nuts are a dime a dozen. We'll change their minds by the way we live our lives, not by the pointless arguments we'll have with them.

Have him over again and COCKSLAP that bitch!

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs - as long as the practising of those beliefs doesn't actively harm others. You may feel that his opinion of your lifestyle is wrong, but he is entitled to that opinion, just as you are entitled to live that lifestyle. As long as he is not forming a posse to run you and your husband out of town (or worse) he is free to believe what he wants to believe.

The writer is clearly angry and I'm sure I'd be pissed off too if I had a similar experience. I say deal with the anger and the emotions this stuff brings up for you and forget about trying to engage or tell off this guy. This is more to do with you than the good "Christian" so focus on yourself and your own reaction and feelings. Something to keep in mind here is that this is a loss. You had a relationship with this guy who came into your home regularly and now it's gone and in an abrupt way with the pain of rejection along the way.

Deal with those feeling on your own and with your husband and forget about that guy.

I hate to be the one that states the obvious here but the whole problem is a mixture of friendship and business. This guy obviously liked you and your husband found you to be good and kind people and you started to care about each other.

The relationship became more than professional as it often does with people we see frequently, I know that I am good friends with my massuse, my doctor, my fitness instructors and quite a few of my clients. In other words you stopped being money to this boy and started being people, and he simply could not deal with that, so he wants you to change to fit in with his world, the fact that he liked you threatened his world view so rather than expand that view he contracted. If I was to be a bitchy Queen I would be screaming CLOSET CASE

This is also the reason you need to respond you have a relationship with this man which while not sexual is important to you and is about more than money it is about respect. You know what right wing Christians are going to think of a same sex marriage yet you allowed him to your home and into your life cared about him and then he left and did so with ignorance.

If you have to respond to him, tell him that you are praying for him that he will find the peace within himself and that you wish for him all the good things that the world can offer but understand that his faith is important to him as your self respect is important too you.

2 things I find strange tho
As long as they are good at their job I don't care what sex my massuer is so why did you ask for a guy?

On finding out is ignorance why on earth did you let him into your home or introduce him to the people you care about?

Interesting that the massuer had no problem in taking $1,000 a month from you - earning $12,000 for a year and now he has a problem - I'd ask him for my money back.

He has his belief, you have your's.

You're both entitled to your opinion and entitled to express it, but you aren't OBLIGED to express it. He most likely only says (and thinks) that either because he has been conditioned by his faith to say (or think) that, or simply to evoke a response.

The problem is his- and his to deal with. So long as you're happy and comfortable with yourself, his opinion will be worth no more than yours.

I'd firebomb his ass!

Just kidding. Send him Greg's letter. It's perfect.

I don't get it.

You know enough "that this conversation had a dead end to it, that there was no point in debating or arguing", yet
1 you proceed to canvass opinions from family and friends
and now
2 you solicit opinions from random strangers online
--what exactly do you expect to hear that you did not already know? what proportion of agrees-and-disagrees are you seeking to have? what could possibly change your mind, or his for that matter? (All rhetorical questions.)

I: Either end your business relationship with him ("your back pains are a thing of the past" anyway) and your social relationship too if you cannot withstand his disapproval of your being and of your lifestyle, or go on and subject yourself to more of what you were told in unmistakable terms (will you then repeat the opinion poll each time?).
II: Either speak with a competent lawyer to see if you have a legal case against him, or accept the fact that all you have is "I" above.

Why do you think they are called fundamentalists. They are not free unless they tell you what to do and how to believe your life should be and how you should act.
You have an honest marriage and an honest love of one another. Be thankful. God has already given you everything you could ask for. As for the fundamentalists, they are in for a big suprise when god tells them that they do not know shit about him.
Let it go, you are already blessed. He is the one who lives in the closet.
Later

Move on and let it go. At your age you should know by now, there's no fixing stupid. If you are that thin skinned, not sure how you made it to 54.

Eveyone is entitled to his/her own opinions and beliefs. That is our right. If this is how he believes, then we need to respect that. Some Christians have a hard time separating what they preceive as "sin" from the person committing the "sin". That in turn causes them to totally cut off any type of relationship with that person. Being the gracious person that you are, I commend you for how you handled the situation. I think that if you really want to make a statement of just how much of a decent and upstanding human being you are, send him a thank you card. In it, thank him for his services and also thank him for his prayers. Challenge him to be as much like Jesus as he can and remind him that the Bible he reads teaches..."he who is without sin cast the first stone". This young man has cast a stone, but insted of you returning one, you're responding with love and compassion. Just like Jesus would have. Trust me, that will hit him where it counts MUCH faster than responding with anger and lashing out.

Not clear to me how the masseur is "perpetuating hate." Maybe what's bothering you is that you finally realized your hopes about him were not going to be fulfilled. This ending was inevitable. Next.

Your health is most important! For health reasons I would approach this in a business matter. Explain that our views and his should not cloud your massage appointment. It just money and a massage transactions nothing more.

@Tom: "I'm old enough to know that this conversation had a dead end to it, that there was no point in debating or arguing, and I thanked him for his honesty and wished him good luck."

And you are and were correct to say and do so. Done and done. Getting riled after-the-fact is a useless waste of your time and energy. He'll have the life he has chosen, and you should get back to yours.

Mom is right: Let it go.

Send him a note to thank him for his expert and helpful professional services and move on.

Put aside your feelings for a moment and consider that there are many other factors that may, or may not, be involved: his wife, pastor or other "church people" may have got to him; he may feel that his relationship with you and/or your husband is at risk of becoming unprofessional; are you so certain that your relationship with him has no hidden sexual dimension.

The money was paid for his professional services as he performed them and does not now give you an claim on anything more.

For whatever reason, right or wrong, he has severed the professional relationship, including the trust that it involves, and you should accept that decision with equanimity.

I read most of the replies - I HATED the "let it go" suggestions, since you obviously want to to something.
Greg had the right concept, but I didn't like the wording.
I suggest:

Dear Putz--
You touched our Gay Jewish bodies and took our Gay Jewish money dozens of times--- then thought better of it, and lacked the professionalism to give us adequate notice to replace your services.
Would YOU be upset to receive such disapproval and judgement from someone who had been coming into your home for over a year?
You embody everything that is wrong with the "so-called Christians of today". My Jewish cousin, Jesus, would suggest you have behaved like an unloving, uncharitable hypocrite.
My Gay friends, as you might imagine, think you have Gay issues within yourself: but if you do, don't come here to try to express them, for you have made yourself dead to us by being so hurtful.
The worst place in Hell is reserved for those who hurt others with their judgement: I suggest you prepare to dwell in it for eternity, starting at once.

Faggot X and Faggot Y-- your former friends
_________________________________________
SEND IT AND FORGET ABOUT IT!!!!

Ps-- two of the responders used "cavalier" wrong. It means "Showing arrogant or offhand disregard; dismissive: a cavalier attitude toward the suffering of others."

If all he said to you was that he prays for you, worries about your lifestyle and that you won't go to heaven, who cares? This hardly seems very "hateful". He didn't attack you, after all. You probably have views about Christianity and fundamentalism that he doesn't share. Why should either of you take offense? He may well not be the right masseuse for you, or even the right conversational partner (if you really get all that upset about it), but it seems like he was saying what he did because he was concerned about you and wished the best for you - misguided as he may have been. I have a Catholic friend who suspects that I won't make it to heaven. On the other hand, I have an athiest friend who likes to announce that we are nothing more than worm food with meaningless lives. I agree with neither of them, but I hardly think that they're full of hate. It seems to me that, if you're firm in your own convictions, the convictions of others are irrelivant. Why not either "agree to disagree" or, if your so inclined, have a non-angry "debate" with him. Both solutions seem superior to seething with rage about trivialities.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop referring to PROFESSIONAL massage therapists as Masseurs. With the word masseur comes a very heavy sexual connotation.

Please educate yourselves, everyone!

Yes, his MT breached several client/therapist relationship issues and in general, should not be doing most of the things he is (including going to the wedding in the first place!)

HEY GUYS,

THANKS for the full spectrum of opinions/ideas/suggestions/bitching which I expected from y'all. Very thoughtful words from many, some funny-as-hell advice! Very much appreciated.

Tom

@Tom: Its so nice to see feedback from the person who's written in - yeah I enjoyed all the differing comments/advice too!

Cheers

Hairy Harry