Ask QC: Should I Make A Move On My Close Friend?
This one's a long, but familiar situation. Reading it gave us nostalgia:
Frankly I'm in a dilemma,
I've known my friend for a little over four months. He's a real cool guy who enjoys cars, going out with friends, and hanging over at my place drinking. I have been bi-sexual for the last ten years but have had to be in the closet about it due to my family supporting me through college and their hardcore Republican anti-gay beliefs. As such, I've never really gotten to do anything with another man.
I met him when some friends and myself snuck into a pool at night. As I was with a girl, I pretended not to give notice to the new guy with his rich brown skin and tight body. But he assimilated into our group quickly and began hanging out with us far more often. It was then that I realized I was developing feelings for him.
I would really like to get into a relationship with him if he was willing, though even a more open relationship where we just spend time together physically in between girlfriends would make me happy, I find myself feeling like a child with a crush but I can't figure out if he would be willing to even try sex.
My house is the one where everyone normally gathers before we leave for the night, or if we're staying in and watching a movie for the night, then we'll see it at my house and just crash there as a group. Due to some instability at his place, he began staying at my house nearly every night, just crashing on the sofa. Sometimes, his girlfriend would spend the night as well with or without the entire group of friends.
His school schedule also resembled mine so on Tuesdays and Thursdays we just hang out around the house or go and cruise the mall or any of the other sites arounds the city. As I'm bi, I have few problems remarking on the comments he'd make towards a hot girl, and he also adopted the "no homo" phrase when something gay is said or done. At this point, I figured he was just another heterosexual that I could dream about and at most, get to see lounging around my house in a towel while wet. But as time progressed, I started to wonder if I could have a chance.
After about 3 months, I really started to notice that the number of gay things he did and said had increased slightly; also, he wouldn't always say "no homo" right after doing something. Such as, we have always wrestled; he used to have some problems with fighting, and I can appreciate the activity as a way to make use of some testosterone. During these bouts, I would work extremely hard at not letting my body react to the feeling of him pressing against me. But during a bout one day, he intentionally grabbed my ass when I had him in a hold to try to shock me to let go of him (as I had done once about a month ago). Him doing this didn't really give me any hopes because I already knew he would call "no homo" and puff himself up for beating me with the trick, but it never came.
Also, when we drive in a car together, he sometimes will randomly place his hand on my leg and squeeze as a joke to try to make me jump. He does it when people are in the car as well, sometimes he immediately follows it with a call of "no homo" and sometimes he doesn't, if someone in the car jokes around and says something like "please call no homo" he will say it immediately without thinking. I have of course reciprocated this by doing it to him when we were alone and he immediately jumped and pushed my hand away.
Due to some prior conditions with his health, he tends to become injured easily. This means that he sustains far more injuries during our wrestling matches than I do, even though I keep a very close eye on the amount of strength I use. But accidents have still occurred. Three times he has injured his shoulder or neck and I played the sorry friend and offered to massage the areas with medication to help with his soreness. All three times, he accepted to my own gratification as I got to put my hands on his shirtless chest and back. Lately, he has allowed me to stick my arm around his shoulder at home to comfort him (he's going through a nasty breakup with his girlfriend, I dumped mine from the pool a while back and "haven't been interested in anyone lately") and if he's sitting in a chair eating and I'm talking to him he's allowed me to go up randomly massage his shoulders while I'm talking to him (granted I haven't sustained this for long periods of time, probably 20-30 seconds at a time).
We often do some guy nights with just us and a few good drinks and some hookah (it's a bong with tobacco). During these times we usually just chill outside and talk, we have both shared some personal things and he has gone far enough to share some of his preferences in bed (big surprise here: he enjoys blow jobs and prefers bottom -- well with a girl) and his insecurities about the size of his penis. Hes a very "macho" masculine type guy that likes his tough guy/bad ass image when we leave the house to go to a party or anywhere. But when we are alone like on these nights, he opens up and shows that he's really nice and gentle. He even screams and laughs when you tickle him.
Since he's been at my house every day for the last few months, it is natural that he also showers at my house. He showers in my bath and has given no verbal dislike to having to use my soaps/shampoos/deodorants/gels—or my clothes (including boxers). Now I promise this is unintentional but my shower curtain is made of a partially see-through material that allows for you to see pretty much everything with a red tint. I have found myself creating excuses to have to go into the bathroom to grab something when he's showering and he has not ever complained about my knocking and asking if i can come in for blah blah blah. He cannot be unaware that I can see through the curtain as the person showering can also see through it and everything in the room as well. Nor does he cringe in the shower, he usually faces towards me and talks to me from the shower. Acting as the heterosexual friend, I try to not look down and just say what I need to, grab what I need, and get out.
Like any other guys, we enjoy playing some XBOX together when we're at the house bored. When we play a game like Halo, I always win (though I try to give him a chance sometimes) and when we first met, he did nothing but do a knuckle pound when either of us got a good kill but as time progressed, if I killed him when he had an element of surprise or something of that nature, he would say "bitch" and try to play slap me (we play on the couch [which is L shaped] with our heads towards each other meeting at the vertex). Now, it's to the point where he play slaps me on pretty much any kill I make on him (which is quite a few) and sometimes goes further to try to put me into a headlock (this is how the wrestling first begins quite often). And I wonder about how he has gotten more and more comfortable touching me, sometimes, the slaps are very soft and he slides his fingers off my face rather than just picking them up.
I also found out that besides his love for hip hop and rap, he actually enjoys a lot of country music and music from the pop genre all the way down to enjoying Britney Spears and Keith Urban and Taylor Swift. He has never really shown interest in reading, but I did get him to admit that he enjoyed the Twilight series as well. About the last thing that really comes to mind is that he shaves... everything. He says he likes shaving his legs because he likes when they feel smooth and his pubes because he likes being hairless.
I have tried to mention most of the little things he does that I note as being opportunities, but then, in order to get honest feedback I feel I must also note the deterrents.
Like most heterosexuals, he has an undeniable infatuation with breasts and has said many vulgar things about women we have passed by or seen online. He dragged me to a website that posted lots of various pictures from funny pics, to teaser pics, to nearly porn pics and commented on the girls viewed there.
He likes the typical heterosexual ribbing on each other by calling each other "fags", "bitch", and making crude remarks about anything. I am used to this game, because pretty much any straight guy tends to do this with his buddies; so the behavior is typical. If I manage to get him with a good burn he laughs along with me. He also doesn't have any problems with using phrases such as "you can suck my dick."
As I said previously, he dates girls. Though I know he's not opposed to cheating, his current situation with his girlfriend spawned from him cheating on her with another girl. So I feel sometimes that making a move while he has a girlfriend wouldn't mean instant rejection just on the basis that he has a girlfriend, but I also worry because he claims to love her very much, and sometimes I would agree with him that he does, and other times, I would say that he should have dumped her long ago.
Besides the jumping from my touch in the car, if I do the leg touch joke, he also shies away from my hand touching him. If it's any part of me besides my hand, he doesn't move, but if we are on the couch and my hand casually touches his hand or his leg, he will scoot over.
I have tried to mention nearly anything of consequence in this, though I'm sure some little things escape me.
Please help me, I have considered and pondered my brain into mush trying to figure out whether or not he would be willing to try something with me. He is a player (part of his 'image') and so I have thought that my best action might be to try to get him to agree to experimenting a little with me bottoming because I know his macho pride wouldn't allow him to do much (he won't even go down on a girl because of it). However two things hinder me: First, I don't know if he's willing to try something with a guy. Second, I don't know how to approach him with my proposal without risking our friendship forever (which I really don't want to lose). Any light that can be shone on either of my dilemmas would be greatly appreciated.
Jay
There's a difference between platonic intimacy and romantic intimacy. Wrestling, massages, showers, and Britney Spears doesn't make someone gay, but it certainly is making Jay wonder if his friend could become a friend with benefits. We're not sure how old Jay is or whether he's out to his friend, but regardless, we're betting a lot of other QueerClickers have been in a similar situation. Please share your advice and experiences to help Jay in the comments section.
Have a question for QC? Send 'em to ask@queerclick.com and we'll do our best to solve your problems!
26
QC Asians
Reader Comments
Your 2¢, in chronological order — add your comment below.
don't do anything, if anything were to happen, let him make the first move. you don't know for sure if he is interested in men and it can ruin your relationship with him. i liked a close friend once and although he acted straight, there were several signs that indicated that he could be gay/bi. i made the mistake of making my move and after blaming me for making a mess of his life, let's just say we're no longer talking to each other. i was so depressed about it and it took a long time to get over it. it's not worth it if you value your friendship with him.
That was just LONG.
quit pretending to be bisexual.
You should ask your mom.
I personally wouldn't do anything. He got his current girlfriend by cheating on the previous one. Big warning sign there. If you only want to play with him, then I would agree that he should make the first move. If you make it first and he's not comfortable, lots of things would go wrong. Try like watching straight porn in the living room and start to jerk off...maybe he'll walk in and join you.
I had a crush on my classmate the first year of High School and I was very sure he was gay. We would play computer games and he would put his hand on my hand on the mouse, he would tickle me... I was pretty sure he liked me back. The summer after he got a girlfriend and I came out of the closet. I barely talked to him after that. Last year we were drunk and got talking and he asked me why I stopped talking to him. I told him that I had had a crush on him and that it was too painful. He was so shocked to hear it, he never realised and then he said he was sorry. We've never really become friends like we were again. I don't know if that's at all helpful but that's my story of a similar situation.
Weird, a similar thing happened with me recently. Except the difference is that my friend, who was my best friend, is open to the fact that he likes anal stimulation and has had sex with guys, yet he cannot reciprocate these feelings because he's not gay. I fell in love with him eventually and things did NOT turn out well at all.
I ended up having sex with him only to make things weird between us, the guy who I used to spend everyday with because we were such good friends. Now it's awkward. We're trying to make things normal again, the way it used to be, but it's just weird now.
The feelings I developed for him grew too much, and way much more after the sex happened. I became obsessed, possessive, and needless to say it ruined our friendship even further. And me? Well, it was one of the worst pains I've ever felt in my life.
So my tip: If this friend of yours means a lot to you and you think he's straight, then stop it. He's straight, there's nothing you can do about it. Go find someone else who's actually gay or bisexual. Now, if he's open to dating guys or sleeping with guys, find out first, but don't surprise him with it. There's nothing wrong with being sincere and honest about something.
Basically, just don't get involved if you know that it probably won't end well. What's more important, your friendship or your horniness? If he's straight; truly straight, just care for him as a friend, and nothing more, because the hurt that comes with loving someone who can't love you back hurts way too much. Too much for anyone to feel.
So you be the judge. Don't think with your emotions, think rationally. Is it worth it?
The reason you're felling like a little boy with a crush is because you're acting like one. Jesus Fucking Christ, what is it with closeted "bisexuals" that they all carry on like cowards and lame-ass cry babies?
Grow some fucking balls and stop pussy-footing around with your life. this isn't the dress rehearsal, this is the only one you get.
I'm always aghast with how "bi" guys all act like gay sex is something shameful that they have to do in private behind their girlfriend's backs. Are there any men left with any integrity at all?
I told one of my best friends that I liked him, and that I thought he was perfect. He told me that he loved me, but that his beliefs would prevent him from having a "deeper" relationship with me. We both tried to stay best friends after that, and it couldn't work because he kept playing on my emotions, and it was too painful for me because I couldn't have him the way I wanted. I still love him too. But we haven't talked in over 6 years and we live in walking distance from eachother.
Seems you've never had a close male hetero friend. Nothing you wrote indicates that's he's gay or interested in guys. Just normal guy friendships where people get comfortable with each other.
You're just seeing everything you WANT to see and not really seeing that he's just being friendly. Sorry for minimizing it that way, but that's what it is. Typical crushing but you're going to ruin a good friendship that could even be better once you get over your crush.
Does he even know you're bi? (which, btw, by your description dealing with hetero porn it seems you're just gay) He's confided personal stuff with you, so you might as well take one of those opportunities to tell him that much about yourself. Also, at a later date (def. not at the same time), tell him jokingly that you've had a crush on him but you'll get over it and see what his reaction is. A good friend will understand and let your work through it (and at least you'll get that secret out there.)
BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, don't do anything stupid like make a move on him -- that'll just make things awkward. Life isn't porn.
maybe you should tell him you are bisexual. if he accepts you that will be a step forward. if he doesn't then you will know that he will never try something with you.
slip him some roofies, tie him to your bed, and have your way with him
Im bi and have a straight best friend who im out to but nobody else. I have sucked him off on more than one occasion but never really told him i have feelings for him although im sure he's smart enough to figure it out. Just like you, I have put my arms around him, massage his shoulders, played with his cock, and sometimes i would ask him does this bother you. He'll either wont answer or say "na it's cool."
My advice is dont get dramatic and pour your heart out to him about your feelings but i would come out as bi. And straight men dont like their sexuality questioned by anybody else. It makes them insecure. Let him make the first move. Let him be the first to confess some feelings. When I came out to him he was cool and understanding about it and he's a hardcore Republican christian type too. Try coming out to him. Once he knows that you like guys he might to try to make the first move!
Just because a man is affectionate with another man, doesn't mean that he's GAY or has sexual feelings for you. You are reading WAY too much into his actions. From your thorough description, it's pretty evident that this guy is not gay. Accept it. Be his friend. Start putting your energies into hooking up with guys who actually ARE gay are are able to return your affections. You'll find that the intensity of your horned-up feelings about your friend will settle down.
If you don't... you risk hurting this friendship. It seems like he trusts you and really needs you right now.
Blake's story is a common one. (I've been through it myself.) If, as Terry says, you want to let him know you may be bi, just shrug it off, don't make a big deal about it. Then he won't either.
Peace out.
You know that old adage, "Be careful what you wish for, because it might come true." I've been there before and let me tell you, it seldom works out the way you hope it will. If you sleep with him, things will definitely get weird, no question. Then you risk losing someone you really care about. If you don't sleep with him, you'll be torturing yourself forever wondering, what if.
I think it's best that you be honest and tell him that your bi/gay/weird whatever, because then you can have an honest relationship, whether it be platonic or sexual. He may reject you or it may make your friendship stronger, but friends accept you no matter what. And maybe you confiding in him will push him into expand his boundaries.
If he's not interested just move on, hopefully you'll find someone else who's really into you and wants to be with you. Because pining away for some guy that isn't available makes for a sad and lonely existence, and you deserve better than that.
And lastly, get some gay/bi friends because, they can help you through this better than anyone else can.
I read this earlier today and thought the same thing as many of you. Just come out to him as bi in a casual fashion and see where the conversation takes you. Let him lead with the questions and keep your emotions below the surface. Just take this first step and the rest may all just fall into place by itself.
I agree with most of the above -- you could have fucked him in half the time it took to write that soap opera.
Don't find yourself being like the guy who writes above that his friend "likes anal stimulation, but is straight, so banging his box caused problems" --- mutual pathetic denial.
For shit sake, there are fish in the sea that will swim your way.
You risk NOTHING good or valuable by coming on to him -- what you might lose is torturing you anyhow. END THE TORTURE, and make room for something better with him or others.
PS--You mention "rich brown skin" -- if he is Black or some other minority which has trouble recognizing and acknowledging homosexuality, this is an additional obstacle.
(no one yell that I am a racist -- Prop 8 won well over 2/3 of the Black vote in Calif -- gay is mostly not socially acceptable in that community)
That was excruciatingly long.
1 Bros before hoes, friendship before lust.
2 You both like each other as friends, but just because you also like him in another way does not mean he feels the same way on that point, too. (see #1 above again)
3 Friendships which are worth keeping often last forever, but intense non-platonic relationships nearly never do. (see #1 above again)
4 If you had a wider social circle then you'd have other men you are attracted to, and you wouldn't be obsessing about mixing romance and sex with friendship.
STEP I: Find a different outlet for your giddy-teen-girl pinings and for your lust, and keep the friend you already have.
STEP II: If the friend tells you first, then accept the offer or don't. Until then, apply STEP I above.
Most of us have had affairs that didn't last as long as it would take to read that nonsense.
He's straight. You're engaging in a lot of wishful thinking.
Hit on him now and he'll be pissed, not because you're gay but because you deceived him. Which you have.
BTDT. Don't make a big mistake. Move on.
First let me say, enough with this bisexual crap. We all know its a one way road leading to gayville!! Get over yourself and come out as gay already.
Second, if you really value your friendship as much as you say you do, then don't do anything, even if he initiates it.
Speaking from personal experience, I was in the same situation as yourself when I was in college, except I wasn't covering up my homosexuality by calling myself bisexual and I lived with the guy the last there years of college. In the three years of living together we became very close to one another, even becoming frat brothers before we graduated.
I'm not your typical fag, I don't come off as flambouyant and I don't walk with a twist in my step. Many people never thought of me as being gay until I told them. My friend however, always came off as gay through his mannerism and the way he talked. Although he never had a girlfriend while in college, he always said he was straight and had to defend this all through college. Many of our friends did not believe I was the gay one and him the straight one.
My last year in college, I developed feelings for him, something which surprised even me cause he is no where near the type of guy I would have sex with. Needless to say, we messed around a couple of times before I graduated. It never developed into a relationship, and after looking at what happened in perspective, I'm glad that nothing serious did develop. After close consideration, my "feelings" were nothing more than an infatuation, which I can safely say is what you're expirencing. Since then, I have graduated from college and its been more than a year since I've seen or heard from him and I want to keep it that way, even if he is my frat brother.
To sum up, DON'T DO ANYTHING. Even if his curiosity gets the better of him and wants to experiment, don't give in. Sex changes everything, it complicates things. But then again, the flesh is weak. If you want to keep your friendship with this guy, don't do anything with him. Move on to some other guy, there are plenty of certifiable gay men around you,including yourself. Don't waste your time trying to seduce the elusive straight guy. I know its a fantasy of all gay men, but think about it, if you do end up having sex with a straight guy, how "straight" was he to begin with?
Good luck with your childish problem!!
First let me say, enough with this bisexual crap. We all know its a one way road leading to gayville!! Get over yourself and come out as gay already.
Second, if you really value your friendship as much as you say you do, then don't do anything, even if he initiates it.
Speaking from personal experience, I was in the same situation as yourself when I was in college, except I wasn't covering up my homosexuality by calling myself bisexual and I lived with the guy the last there years of college. In the three years of living together we became very close to one another, even becoming frat brothers before we graduated.
I'm not your typical fag, I don't come off as flambouyant and I don't walk with a twist in my step. Many people never thought of me as being gay until I told them. My friend however, always came off as gay through his mannerism and the way he talked. Although he never had a girlfriend while in college, he always said he was straight and had to defend this all through college. Many of our friends did not believe I was the gay one and him the straight one.
My last year in college, I developed feelings for him, something which surprised even me cause he is no where near the type of guy I would have sex with. Needless to say, we messed around a couple of times before I graduated. It never developed into a relationship, and after looking at what happened in perspective, I'm glad that nothing serious did develop. After close consideration, my "feelings" were nothing more than an infatuation, which I can safely say is what you're expirencing. Since then, I have graduated from college and its been more than a year since I've seen or heard from him and I want to keep it that way, even if he is my frat brother.
To sum up, DON'T DO ANYTHING. Even if his curiosity gets the better of him and wants to experiment, don't give in. Sex changes everything, it complicates things. But then again, the flesh is weak. If you want to keep your friendship with this guy, don't do anything with him. Move on to some other guy, there are plenty of certifiable gay men around you,including yourself. Don't waste your time trying to seduce the elusive straight guy. I know its a fantasy of all gay men, but think about it, if you do end up having sex with a straight guy, how "straight" was he to begin with?
Good luck with your childish problem!!
What's with all the bi-bashing? You people sound just like the cretins who believe that we aren't really gay, just confused. Get over yourselves and realise that other people can have different feelings to you.
In response to your problem mate, more of the same. You have to come out to him either way. If i were you, i'd put aside your feelings for him. Come out to him for your friendship's sake. If he knows you're bi, then he might, that was MIGHT reciprocate, but to be honest, if he's a close friend who's gone through a messy break up and who hasn't ever said anything about being attracted to guys before, then he's not really in a good place to start a relationship anyway. Coming out to him might just make your friendship that much stronger, and being able to be truly open with such a close friend might just change your feelings for him. You might find yourself feeling friendship for him again instead of frustrated sexual feelings. If you still feel the same, coming out to him will at least let you know either way.
I don't know everything (or in most cases anything) but i hope what i've written helps. Good luck.
based on the way you talk he'd be CRAZY not to know that you like the man-peen. based on that, it should be easy the next time he says "suck my dick," to say, "hey, you know that i like dick, right?"
sure to work out for you.
::headdesk::
GO FIND A BOY TO DATE.
just keep it that way and don´t screw up your his friendhip prob he is not into men...
you can tell him privatetly, playing xbox (just for your own relief) that you are starting being a bi-curious lately but don´t approach him anything else that make him feel embarrassed or hounded just that you feel good figuring out new thinks...
If you are still reading comments by now...
I think a lot of the dilemma in this is coming from innocent lack of experience, not your fault. On the other hand, you need to learn more about yourself, BE YOURSELF, and FIND GUYS YOU CAN BE YOURSELF WITH. That's really the sum of it. As you do, you'll know more what to think and what to do. Nobody is perfect at relationships but I think you know what I mean.
Who knows where your friend is coming from. Seems like he doesn't, you don't, and certainly none of us do. My guess is even if he played with you sexually, it'd be fraught with limitations and frustrations. You might cum, but the situation isn't really supportive and healthy. Waiting to see if he will play is like waiting to win the lottery. I personally don't think it will happen. Just my opinion. Just accept him for who he is and where he's at. If that becomes too much of a burden, then move on. If he's really your friend, he should at least be able to accept your bisexuality and be supportive. That's right. A friend is someone who likes you for who you are. It's still your choice whether you wish to come out to him.
I do understand your feelings for him, and they are wonderful. It's good you can recognize them. But they are unrequited, remember. You can't expect anything from him. Find someone who can give you what you want. Good luck. No matter what our sexual orientation or age or looks, we all need good luck!